The Cross Movement is back to ‘spark the Holy Culture”.

They have been blessed to grace many exciting events, and have headlined their own tour. Why? Of course, for the sake of winning souls to Jesus and for discipleship.

Gospelflava.com caught up with Tonic, TRU-LIFE and Ambassador to talk about the recent album and some of the current issues in the Christian hip hop community.



Gospelflava.com: The Cross Movement has been considered as the trailblazers in the Christian Hip Hop scene for some time now. How do accept that responsibility?

Tonic: For a long time, we weren’t even sure if that was the case. We are just trying to be faithful to the mission that God gave to us.

I think that over time (with a lot of people telling us that), when we got to see the true state of Christian hip hop up against the rest of the industry, we started to agree that the Lord had given us —I don’t know about trailblazers —but at least a small piece of responsibility.

He’s given us responsibility in terms of trying to take some leadership, showing people how to merge true ministry with the tool of hip hop. Again, we are not into the star-studded thing; or trying to blaze the trail like some superstars. But we do feel a true weight and responsibility of leaving a real legacy for cats coming behind us so they won’t get caught up in this industry stuff.

They need to understand that whether the industry is for you or against you, platinum selling or not, they must stay true to the call. That’s what we’ve been attempting to do.

Gospelflava.com: TRU-LIFE, it’s good to see you back on the new album. How have you guys grown since Human Emergency?

TRU-LIFE: I think artistically, guys have grown, but more so, I’ve noticed that everybody has an approach to discipleship. In the name of making sure that this call can be carried on; Holy Culture has several resounding themes, and one of them is being in the mix. Making sure that you stand out in the mix because God’s people are distinctive. They’re supposed to be different.

Holy Culture

The curtain lifts on the album to reveal the title cut, "Holy Culture", featuring Phanatik. Possessing a reggae-infused beat, this is the perfect opener that provides the thesis to lay down the theme of not only this project, but the purpose of The Cross Movement.... See full review.

I think that the biggest growth as a group is the fact that we see the need to blaze the trail as Tonic said, but more so for the betterment of the kingdom and not just to leave a legacy in terms of the hip hop thing. We try to be as much of an example as we possibly can, ‘cause we all see that there are guys and sisters that are coming up after us that need to know exactly how this thing works. We don’t have a handle on exactly how it really works, but God has really graced us in terms of being able to see the mix of ministry and industry.

We’ve grown as individuals who realize that the importance of discipleship and really begin to put that stuff into play, and it even plays out in some of the songs. The way that we encourage young people. The way that we structure ministry, and even the way we try to instruct some of the guys who may be coming up.

Gospelflava.com: The beats on Holy Culture seem more diverse than on your previous albums. What was your approach as far the beat selection?

Tonic: I don’t think our approach has been any different. Anytime we do our album, we start assessing what’s going on in hip hop. We try to keep our ear to the street. People have heard a different progression on different albums. If people notice the time that those albums came out, they’re usually right in line with whatever is going on in hip hop. With our first album, it was straight rugged. It was similar with House of Reps, but we got a chance to experiment and try a couple of things, but it was still more of a rugged album. Human Emergency was an experiment, because hip hop was experimenting with keyboard modules, and all different kinds of sounds. With us being a part of the hip hop culture, we were experimenting as well.

Now that hip hop has seemed to come back to some more raw regular hip hop, we found ourselves in that same place. As we were getting with different producers, it just seemed like those (who appeared on the album) stood out. DJ Official was on top of all that. We just happened to feel that what he was coming with, was right where we needed to be. So we selected beats, not producers, and the Lord just seems to take care of the rest for us.

Gospelflava.com: Duece (Ambassador), how do you to balance time with family, The Cross Movement, and grad school?

Ambassador: Not too well. I’ll have to admit, but my attempt is always to do as much as my wife would allow me. I’ve abandoned this life to the cause of Christ, and I married a woman who understands that our call is a very sacrificial one. It’s demanding. It doesn’t look much like the American setup. I don’t much punch a clock. I don’t kiss my wife at 8:54, wind up at work at 9:30; kiss my wife at 6:37 because I just came home. Then sit on my easy chair, get the remote, go around the dinner table and wind up at 8:30 snuggling with wife, looking at the newspaper with Spot, the dog. It isn’t that clean for me. I live the life of an evangelist.

My wife has decided to devote these early nursing years to spend more time a little closer to home to hold that fort down. We have priorities. During the school year, that’s the bulk of my time. If a man doesn’t work, he shouldn’t eat. So I also do ministry engagements that continue to support home.

So I study and fellowship with God’s people. My life is really simple. It’s only made of certain compartments, but a big hunk of it seems to have me in spotlight, but that’s probably why people may think that Deuce’s life is crazy. I think my life is crazy, but it’s for a season. I can even see that season shifting somewhat, especially as our kids get older. Then my wife will get a chance to do some of the things that she wants to do ultimately. I just try my best and God gives grace.

Gospelflava.com: Tonic, when are we going to get a solo joint from you?

Tonic: Well I have my hand to the plow as we speak on that whole mission. Hopefully soon. The next few albums that we are preparing for is the Tonic solo project and a T.R.U.T.H. project. Those are the ones that people can be looking for pretty soon, unless the Lord switches up something.

We got a lot of stuff that we are trying to come with. We want to saturate, almost do an all-out blitz. We got a cat named Flame. We got a cat named J.R. We got the rest of The Cross Movement solo projects. We plan to put out Cross Movement albums quicker than people expect. Usually it’s like a year, two years or three years between albums. Ambassador is graduating soon. We just feel like the Lord is affording us an opportunity to do this stuff a little quicker and have a plethora of items to present to people with these different artists.

Gospelflava.com: Are you guys in touch with former Cross Movement member, Enock?

Tonic: We see him every now and then. I think that the last time that we saw him was in Nashville at GMA. I talk to him every now and then. It's not as much as we would want to. His life hasn’t afforded that either. He’s moved around a little bit. He was in Ohio and now in Texas. It’s different than when he was around the corner.

Just to throw something out there, we hear that he has a new album coming out. People have been talking about some stuff that he says on his album. We’re unaware of any of it. We still love that brother just like we still love Cruz (Cordero) and everyone who has been apart of our crew at one time. We would like to continue our fellowship and brotherly affection for Enock, Cruz and Earthquake, (who is still with us on the administrative side of things).

Gospelflava.com: Unity among Christians is needed everywhere, and there certainly seems to be a need of more unity in the Christian hip hop field. You have some artists dissing each other on wax, and so on. What can be done to promote more unity?

Tonic: As I continue to assess this question and I have opportunities to beg and even plead with my contemporaries, with other brothers who say that they’re in this for the Christian hip hop ministry, I plead with them in terms of unity, to be able to come to a central place where we can all meet and everybody can say 'Amen'. We are living in a world where some things have changed and it has also affected the church. There’s [a

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thinking out there] that everything is relative. As in, 'whatever is true for you may not be true for me'. This thinking has even infiltrated the church, and even Christian music to the point where we can’t even agree on methodology. We can’t even agree on what the Lord wants this dying world to know right now. We (as a body) should agree on some essential things.

If we’re talking about the nature of God, and the nature of Jesus Christ, somebody jumps up and says that Jesus and Satan are the same, we can’t agree. We can’t walk together. I don’t care how much unity somebody wants, we can’t agree [on fundamental issues if they are wrong]. If we are talking about the issue of tongues —and that has been something that Christians have disagreed on for years —it's something that should not divide us. So [things like that] are a non-essential issue.

What I beg the Christian hip hop community to do, is to sit down and come up with methology. How does God want us to reach this generation? If we’re talking about evangelistic style, whatever the issues are, can we at least sit down and agree that God has not left us here aimlessly. Can we also agree that whenever man has gotten into the situation and [thought he has] figured out how to help God, it always ends up messed up. God has chastised men for doing so.

We will never be in unity unless we sit down and be able to go to some absolute source and be able to agree on some basic scripture. What has frustrated me is that we get into these meetings and nobody wants to pull out scripture. Everybody just wants to come with what they believe is necessary to win this generation.

There's a caution and it’s in 1st Corinthians. We know (even before we open our mouths) that the [Gospel] message is foolishness to some, but to those who are being saved, it’s the very power of God. So before we even speak, we know what’s going to happen. Some will count it as foolishness. Some will count it as the power of God. The minute WE try count it as foolishness, we are in trouble. I think that’s what Christian hip hop is trying to do.

Ambassador: I think that the key to unity is properly defining unity. Tonic hit on it some. What is unity? What is the goal of the unity that we want to see happen? If the goal is: “We just want less friction on wax.”, I can understand that. After we define what unity is, then we define what the goal of the unity is that we’re asking for. We have to be able to respect diversity. You’ll never get complete uniformity. I think some people want uniformity more than unity.

We have to understand that there’s a debate going on in music, especially with respect to Christian music. Why is there a need for a Christian category? I think the debate starts there because I, too, will say, since God has not called us to do something separate, why is

2000 Interview with The Ambassador

The last time I checked, when there is a blazing fire, you need a flood of water, not a squirt of it. Well, with the level of sin and sickness that exists and that is highly evident in today's culture, we need a flood of redemptive material. An abundance of Jesus' Gospel power, not just a sprinkle.... See full 2000 interview with The Ambassador.

there even a need for a Christian category? I would think that the only reason why Christian music arose is because Christians have been the victims of persecution due to their message, which they are forbidden to change. I would say that they created Christian music because they’ve gone into the world, the world says, “We don’t like the stuff about your God, about your way being the only way, and you’re the this and that.” Then Christians say, ‘out of our abilities to use music, he who has ears, let him hear.’

I would have thought that that’s why Christian music was created.

The same thing with Christian hip hop. Many people say that there’s no such thing as a Muslim rapper. But Muslim rap has been welcomed from the beginning. Rakim (along with 5% Nation) was free to proclaim his God over the FM airwaves. That religion has spilled itself out, unopposed, just like in society. It’s the Christians that have always been blasted. That’s a spiritual and biblical principal: Satan runs this world and he hates Christians. He doesn’t hate all religions. That’s the truth.

Now if you choose to rap about Christ, it gets you something. It gets you outcast, insulted, all the things that true prophets got. So here we are trying to get unity in a genre of music that doesn’t allow the Christian who only got in this thing to preach Christ, the right to not only preach Christ, but also to want [Christ] for the community. Anything that’s not contributing to that, we want to label it so. In other words, we don’t feel bad about saying, ‘Oh, have you heard such and such, it’s not evangelistic’. Because that’s what I’m hungry for. So the other is not really my thing.

I think that we have to define unity, define where we want that unity to take us. Then, respect our right to be diverse. Respect our right to continue to preach the cross without you getting mad at us because you think that we are messing up for the genre. Respect our ability or right to say 'your thing has nothing to do with evangelism'.

What we [as a hip hop community] can say at best is that [as a whole, our hip hop] gives glory to God, like eating and drinking gives glory to God. The Bible says whatever you eat or drink do it to the glory of God. Your music can give glory to God. Just because it gives glory to God doesn’t mean that it’s evangelistic. You don’t have to be an evangelistic emcee. Nobody said you did. We want people to let us properly categorize stuff, not to sideline it and discriminate against it, but to distinguish it ‘cause we are in an age where people don’t want to make a distinction or be a distinction. That’s the problem.

Gospelflava.com: Would you consider collaborating with an artist on the “other end of the spectrum”? Basically would you consider doing a song with a Christian artist that has a different approach than you do.

TRU-LIFE: I think it falls on the whole idea of why are you doing what you do. Unity for the sake of unity? To me, we wouldn’t jump on something with another artist just on the name of doing it. We’ve come into to this thing saying, ‘Lord the one thing I won’t do is slack on making sure that Your name is in the forefront.’ To me, that’s been clearly mistaken for “Jesusness”. It’s not that. It’s making sure that Jesus gets all the shine. We happen to be the vessels that He uses. Our goal has always been to set out, tell men of the Savior who can set them right. It’s never been anymore than that.

Everything else falls under that. To me (I’m not speaking for Tonic or Ambassador) it would be a waste of time to jump on a jam with somebody and they are just rapping about how nasty they are. I’m sitting here bangin’ it out for the Lord, and saying, “Yo if you got an issue check this out: I know a God who sets on the throne and makes all things new.” That’s our mission. We wouldn’t really just get down and rock with somebody for the sake of rocking with somebody. We can do that in freestyle sessions. I won’t do it on wax and give it to the people. It would go against the very thing that I set out to do in the first place. I don’t

2002 Interview with Lee Jerkins

As for me and my camp, we don’t have any problems saying the name of Jesus. If you take Christ out of what you do, it becomes just good music. I’m not saying that there is nothing wrong with good music, but I want to be clear on Whom I represent..... See full 2002 interview with Lee Jerkins.

like to use my airtime for me. My airtime and these commercials are for my sponsor.

Ambassador: When people categorize “the other end of the spectrum” as less 'Jesus-mentioning', then they are missing the point. That’s not what we have in Christian hip hop. It’s not just that people don’t mention Jesus. [For example,] I listen to Out of Eden. They bless my heart tremendously when I listen to their music. [And you [rarely] hear the name Jesus per se, but every thrust of their jam always seems to elevate your mind to think heavenly about earthly situations.

We can look at the top 100 Christian hip hop albums. Rappers have a hard time making anything from God their thrust. You might hear them sprinkle God in there. When you look at the whole album, that’s not even the direction of the song. We’re looking for people who’re not necessarily saying the name of Jesus [all the time], but whose thrust is the interest of God. Meaning, God will take interest in it. Also, so those in this world who are ignorant of Him would get a closer or clear understanding of who He is. You don’t have to say Jesus. The book of Esther doesn’t say the name of God at all yet the there’s the story of God’s providence.

You do have people who battle and exalt themselves. They blast other Christian artists. Then they make some reference about how they started it and they runnin’ it.

Tonic: This is not personal. We love everybody that’s apart of the body. Just because we hold to that stance, that doesn’t mean that we dislike people [or claim that] they are not Christians. We are on a mission and the Lord is the one that set us on it. Woe unto us if we get off of it.